locussolus - Thoughts on reparations

September 19, 2005

Steve at BTD responds to this crazy post comparing (I think) Bush's hurricane relief effort to reparations:

Labeling hurricane relief "reparations" is a disservice to both sides of the reparations debate. It sidesteps the aims of the pro-reparations movement (those who Cobb suggests want their "pound of flesh"). Meanwhile, if welfare counts, the anti-reparations crowd [has] an argument that the bill is already paid.

This last part may or not represent Steve's view, but I have a hard time seeing how anyone could even begin compare welfare payments with reparations for over a hundred years of state-sanctioned slavery -- not so much because of questions about whether "welfare counts," but just because of the vastness of the damages relative to welfare payouts. Take, for example, this estimate by Nobel prize winning economist Robert Fogel:

[W]hat was the financial cost borne by the slaves themselves? One measure is the difference between slaves' wages and those of free workers with the same skills. Mr Fogel reckons that, between 1780 and 1860, just before the American civil war, slaves were paid (in food, shelter and so on) around 10% less than similar free workers. He estimates a cumulative bill for slaves' expropriated wages of $24 billion in 1860.
Compound interest on this sum for 142 years has a massive effect. A risk-free interest rate of 6% a year, which is what Mr Fogel estimates is the long-term rate, brings the cost to $97 trillion, more than nine times the size of America's economy today. Awarding interest of just 3% a year would cut the total bill to $1.6 trillion, not far from damages cited in the current lawsuit. These figures are merely for lost wages.

Needless to say, $97 trillion dwarfs the sum total of all welfare payments ever made by the US government, and of course those payments have gone to plenty of folks who aren't descended from slaves.

A couple observations. First, I think it's odd that those calling for reparations have framed the issue in just that way, particularly when what they're asking for is actually only the present value of unpaid wages. Using the term reparations makes it sound like the goal is to repair this great historical sin; a better term would make the dispute about wages and the basic fairness of being able to pass on the product of your life's work to your grandchildren. Surely this notion would have some political traction at a time when Congress is hellbent on repealing the estate tax.

Of course, no argument will have sufficient rhetorical force to extract those trillions in unpaid wages, to say nothing of punitive damages. The numbers are just so laughably huge that it would destroy an America that has (despite the madness of yesterday) continued to grow. This, in my view, is the only convincing reason not to pay damages for slavery -- that some sins (the Holocaust, the near annihilation of Native Americans) are so horrific that there's no way to correct or atone for them, and practical steps such as the development of conscience and collective memory have to suffice. That, and a tireless commitment to equal opportunity.

Comments

BTD Steve {September 20, 2005}

That last part of my post does not reflect my view. That's why I said Cobb's post does a disservice to both sides. There are many other, better reasons we should not pay reparations.

First, all slaves and slaveowners are dead. While the lingering effects of slavery obviously have a lasting effect, compensating the descendants of victims of historical wrongs requires us to rethink our legal system. Once we let that genie out of the bottle, we'll discover there are historical wrongs aplenty to go around.

Second, as a practical matter, it would be impossible to determine who should, and should not, be entitled to payment. Not all black Americans are descended from slaves, and not all descendants of slaves are black. There is a growing class of black Americans who have overcome the residual disadvantages of slavery.

Third, it is crass to believe that a historical crime of the magnitude of slavery can be "repaired" with a payment of cash, no matter how exorbitant. ($97 trillion in unpaid wages? I think the Chinese and indentured servants will want a piece of that action). You allude to this point in your post, and you're right.

paul {September 20, 2005}

Thanks for the clarification, Steve. I agree with you -- as I explained in my post, I think your last argument is controlling here. But I don't buy the first two arguments at all...

Slaveholders and slaves may be dead, but there are plenty of American families who have the opportunity to benefit from the money made by their ancestors -- it's practically an American tradition that you make your fortune and then leave it to your descendants so that they have a leg up on everybody else (which is part of the problem, part of the reason this country needs an estate tax). Also, regardless of when slavery ended, there has been continued discrimination ever since, including denying Blacks the right to vote, the right to sit in the front of the bus, drink from the same water fountain, etc. These discriminations might not have been quite as egregious as enslaving people, but if the rationale for not compensating folks is that they're long dead, why aren't we attemting to compensate those who are still alive yet have these (admittedly smaller) grievances?

As far as the practical matter of determining who's who, I don't think it would be nearly as hard as you say -- especially when there's $97 trillion involved. For that sum you could build all the universities in the country again, and they could research the question until they figured it all out. It might be politically or legally difficult to come up with guidelines, but saying it's just too hard is kind of a disservice to the people who experienced all this. It's an answer they and their descendants hear far too often.

But again, we do agree on that last point.

BTD Steve {September 20, 2005}

paul, I agree that compensating for historical wrongs has intuitive appeal, but it is problematic as a legal matter. Think of crimes. We have decided as a society that if my father killed your father, I do not go to prison for the crime. The law draws a clear distinction between actual wrongdoers and actual victims. The living/dead distinction is not a magically perfect dividing line, but at least it's a line. Once we cross that line, it's extremely difficult to justify drawing any other line.

Another difficulty arises from attempting to assign a remedy to a group, since our law is based on the rights of individuals. Of course slavery and discrimination have continuing effects, but those effects are attenuated and, as to individuals, unpredictable. Black immigrants from Africa who arrived in 2002 suffer from the lingering effects of slavery. Are they entitled to reparations? What about Michael Jordan's kids? We can agree that black generally are disadvantaged as a group, but on an individual basis, often they are not. Note there were also free black slaveowners. How shall we account for them?

I mentioned the Chinese and indentured servants. We could also entertain claims from Native Americans, Jews, Irish, women, and myriad other groups who have suffered historical wrongs in this country.

Regarding the practical difficulties, we would have to answer all sorts of questions. It is indisputably true that genealogical records for slaves are vague and incomplete, where they exist at all. All the universities in the world can't create historical data where none exist. Any attempt would necessarily be arbitrary.

Next is the issue of who pays. From whom shall we extract these 97,000,000,000,000 pounds of flesh? My ancestors are Irish, never owned a slave, and indeed suffered from blatant discrimination in Boston. I've spent my life combatting racism and advocating for equal rights under the law. It's hard for me to swallow the idea that I ought to write a check on behalf of someone else's ancestors. I refuse to take responsibility for the actions of MY OWN great great great great grandfather, much less yours.

Kriston {September 20, 2005}

If Michael Jordan is a descendant of slaves, then of course he and his children would be owed reparations. Reparations were never conceptually intended as a means to an end—they are simply owed. The government propogated a legal system in which whites were able to import an unfairly cheap source of labor and pay them noncompetitive wages (to put it mildly), under the guise that these men could be construed as property. Reparations amount to unpaid wages—in this sense, they don't have a moral component. That Michael Jordan was successful descended from slaves has no bearing on the work that his ancestors performed for no wages.

That the job of paying reparations would be difficult isn't an argument against it. Even an imperfect job, even if the system was gamed around the corners or led to a few undesirable outcomes, is not a reason to do nothing. The only good argument against reparations is that they are fiscally impossible.

Also, financial crimes are most certainly transferred along generational lines, since finances themselves are. Though murder is of course felt across generational lines, it isn't transmitted—it's absurd to talk about having been partially murdered on your mother's side or having inherited grand theft from you father or what have you. When it comes to money, though. . . .

Again, no need to reach for this argument: reparations are impossible, no matter how just, and all you have to say is, "reparations are impossible," and you will be right. But I think that if one recognizes any justfulness in the concept, it's incumbent upon one to design alternatives to dispel the lingering effects of slavery and anti-black government institutions. Despite the fact that you do not want to be held responsible to your ancestors (any more than I do!), you and I—as white people, descended from white people—have benefitted disproportionately due to our race in indeterminable ways.

We have certainly seen just recently that mobility and risk are disproportionately assigned in society to black people. That's the penalty of slavery that lingers today; those are the people whom our safety net are designed to protect and for whom our social policies should be written.

paul {September 20, 2005}

I pretty much agree with everything Kriston said, but let me just clarify (in response to Steve's concerns about paying for the sins of his ancestors) by saying that the government would pay for this, not individuals. Maybe this wasn't clear before, or maybe it was clear but Steve considers the government's money to be his. But the government most certainly should be liable for its past actions, even though it's reconstituted with great frequency and represents the will of a different electorate each time. And of course, government can create obligations -- for instance all the current deficit spending -- that cast a shadow long into the future; nobody would suggest that those obligations should later go unpaid just because the people who incurred them are gone (whether from office or from this mortal coil). So while we can have a heated discussion about whether individual responsibility passes from generation to generation, collective responsibility certainly does, and that's what we're talking about here.

P6 {September 10, 2006}

What would you think of reparations for Jim Crow? It only ended in the mid-60s, de facto even later than that. Thoroughly documentable.

Assuming a fair payment COULD be determined, do you think there's a case?

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